In a recent blog post, Doug Wilson mentioned something that has already been whispered authoritatively in certain segments of his congregation: as a pastor, he’s counseled child molesters. Plural. Now, Doug has gone to great pains to explain that Jamin Wight was not a child molester, so what other child molester(s) besides Steven Sitler has he counseled as a pastor? And why did said counseling not result in these molesters doing jail time? If, in fact, the molesters already did jail time before they encountered Doug as their pastor, then why has Christ Church not informed the congregation about who else (besides Steven Sitler) should be kept away from the children of the congregation?
I believe more on this will come out in the coming weeks and months. In the meantime, let’s set the record straight on something.
What people are outraged over is not that child molesters in Doug Wilson’s congregation get counseling, even that they get forgiven and can partake in communion. It is beautiful for men and women to move beyond the ingrained, destructive patterns of their lives, if in fact they can. I feel compassion for people of all shades and stripes, as do many who are calling for change in the CREC. What people are outraged over is that counseling is all these molesters appear to be receiving from Doug Wilson and company — and not exactly expert counseling, either. This is not good for current victims or future victims, and it is not good for the abusers, either. Meanwhile, the abused are (at least in many cases) not being offered support — instead, they’re offered condemnation.
But none of this really matters to Doug, because according to Doug Wilson, being a child molester isn’t as bad as having received an abortion. According to Doug, a man who’s molested 16 children is less bad than a woman who aborts a fetus she’s convinced (rightly or wrongly) is not a developed human being because, say, at 8 weeks gestation, it cannot feel pain and in size, shape and neurological development, resembles a tadpole. You don’t have to agree that abortion is Ok to understand that some women do not view early abortion as evil, based on biology and the belief that the soul enters a child along with consciousness, or at a certain stage of development. At the very worst, following Doug’s expressed logic on murder, the sin of an abortive woman who believed abortion was OK would be the manslaughter (not murder, since that requires intent) of a human being that is not yet aware of its own existence. And yet, Doug states that this is a more serious sin than repeated child molestation. Here’s the screenshot:
Doug is being pretty cavalier about sex abuse here, whatever he claims to the contrary. Pointing fingers outwards to other people’s sins is bad, he says, and yet this is exactly what he is doing — Doug has never procured an abortion, and never will. But he has helped to keep multiple sex abusers shielded from legal action of any significance, confident in his own abilities as a counselor to ascertain and facilitate repentance in abusers — even though he has a verifiably poor track record in this area.
Last week I visited Bethlehem Baptist Church, well-known as being John Piper’s home church and the location of his seminary. I made a discovery that moved me in light of all the recent hubbub around abusers in the church: taped inside the doors of the women’s bathroom stalls was a flier advertising an abuse hotline number. Other women would answer, the flier noted, noting also that abuse was satanic, and not part of God’s plan for marriage.
Encouraged, I started doing a little more research. I found church statements such as “We, the council of elders at Bethlehem Baptist Church, are resolved to root out all forms of domestic abuse (mental, emotional, physical, and sexual) in our midst.” I found that even firmly patriarchal institutions such as Chalcedon are trying to address the widespread mishandling of abuse in the church. There is a very detailed post from Bethlehem here about what abuse looks like, and how churches should and should not respond to abuse situations. “Telling the woman to submit better—and making her feel like she is to blame in some way—is the worse [sic] thing someone could say in that situation,” notes pastor Jason Meyer. “Do not say insensitive, misguided things like, ‘If it doesn’t leave a physical mark, then it is not abuse.’”
These misguided things are precisely the kinds of statements that abused women receive during CREC counseling sessions, along with directions on how they need to forgive as soon as the abuser says he/she is sorry. Even if this happens a dozen or a hundred times in a row. If a woman is married to an abusive man, in all of the cases I’ve heard of coming out of the CREC, she is sent home with her abuser unless there is life-threatening physical violence. And even “life-threatening” is up for interpretation. A man threatening to deploy a shotgun into his brainstem in the presence of his wife is not considered “life-threatening” to her, because he’s not actually pointing the gun at her. It is (or at least was, as of a few years ago) not considered to be something needing professional therapy or physical separation.
Doug Wilson has proven over and over that he is not equipped to counsel men and women in these situations. And I truly believe that his hubris will show over the coming weeks and months — that more mishandled abuse cases will come to light, and for all of them, Doug will say the same thing: he did fine, he handled everything fine, and anyone who says otherwise is persecuting him because she’s a feminist who hates truth and also babies.
Abuse is serious. Sex abuse of children is very, very, very serious. Even the hint of it can change a person “on a cellular level,” as one man said — a claim that actually holds true on an epigenetic level. As a boy, there was a pedophile who watched him, who would call him and whisper things. One day, the pedophile called and said: I know you’re home alone, and I’m coming to get you. The boy, the only child of a working single mother who’d had him at age 17, the only child of a mother who had been sexually abused herself, phoned his uncle and cowered in the corner. The fear he knew then, a child alone in a trailer with a predator lurking nearby, would be with him for the rest of this life. But his uncle came, his uncle rescued him. Later, his uncle tracked the pedophile down, he and the father of girl the pedophile had abused. They dragged him off into the woods, because in that time, in that place, the lawmen were almost nonexistent, and muscle was the law.
Sex abuse and abortion are related. If you want to stop abortion, take measures that will prevent women you actually know from getting pregnant by men who should not be anywhere near their offspring — take a hard and fast line to stop sex abuse and domestic abuse in your churches. Stop giving men power to get away with a “sorry” while the women bear the shame, or the children. And stop looking where Doug Wilson is pointing, which is away from himself, towards The Greatest Evil, a sin that he is physically incapable of committing.
36 thoughts on “The Counselor of Child Molesters”
Katie, we know from previous post of yours and from DW’s posts that counsel wasn’t the only thing offenders received — they were turned in to the authorities. We know that Doug Wilson thinks that they should have been turned into the authorities, and made sure that that happened.
But I’m also really confused by this post in terms of why you are saying it would be less bad to be aborted than to be molested. I have friends who were sexually molested, horribly so, who have never once expressed a wish that instead they been aborted.
I realize you’re not saying that anyone that you know has said that, but I feel like that’s a logical conclusion to your statements.
Christ Church has, and continues to, help people who are being abused get out, and get help. I want to remind you and your many readers that just because you are not privy to all of the information, does not negate the fact that it is true. Some victims want to remain silent, they feel forgiven they are healing and they don’t want to be up for public scrutiny.
What other offenders were turned in to the authorities at Doug’s suggestion? He didn’t want the Greenfields to go to police (according to testimony of multiple witnesses) and didn’t want Jamin’s next victim to go to the police (although fortunately this was taken out of her hands by the prosecutor). We know of no other child molesters Doug has turned in to police, although by Doug’s own admission there has been more than one to attend his church.
I’m not saying it would be less bad to be aborted than molested (although personally, I’ve heard plenty of people say this). I’m saying Doug is claiming having an abortion is a worse sin than molesting a bunch of children, which doesn’t make sense, and even if it’s true, it’s a deflection… both are bad, but one is actually happening in his church, and isn’t getting addressed properly (especially if he thinks pedophilia disappears when you repent of it, which he seems to).
Only speaking of cases that involve people I know, I can say that your blanket accusation is false. Women I know personally have been and are being helped in tangible ways to get out of abusive/potentially abusive situations and that has included removal of the husband. This has been within the CREC. I won’t presume to say anything one way or another about the women’s stories that I am unfamiliar with but you are.
If that’s the case, that’s great. But how much did each woman have to go through to get to the place where the church was OK with her leaving her husband? Every situation I’ve heard of involved a certain amount of “you should submit” talk before it got to the point where they actually stepped in to do anything. People are leaving CC because of how these cases are handled, even while those (who don’t appear to know some of the details) hold up the same cases to say the church has gotten better at handling abuse cases. And maybe it has. But based on the way Doug responds to questions about abuse in his church, there is still a massive problem with the way things are handled there.
Maybe you can help me with something: why were the other child molestation cases your father-in-law mentions not taken to the authorities and/or revealed to the congregation to prevent repeat offenses? Do you believe the elders are equipped to handle all this internally? The more Doug talks, the more questions he’s raising, and worse your church looks. All of this would be really easy to address if Doug would explain what his stance on abuse is, what it looks like, and how it ought to be handled by churches. But he won’t in any way that appears to be obvious to any but his staunchest supporters. And that’s really telling.
There have been reports that Katie Sitler has been seen at the food bank in Idaho.
If true, why hasn’t the church stepped forward and met ALL of her needs and her child’s? After all, it was the INCOMPETENT advice of the pastors/elders who put her in this *no win* situation to begin with. They could have picked a better husband for Katie if they had closed their eyes, picked up the phone book, opened it up to any page, and smacked a finger down on a man’s name. Truly, that method would have gotten a safer, saner husband for Katie than what the pastors/elders did.
Katie should get a court order from a judge and take her baby and go home to live with her folks in Nevada. She is in a no-win situation, as are generations of children who will be born in to this family. A pedophile in the family is a risk for all children, nieces/nephews, cousins, neighbors, playmates, etc.
Lauren Jess, *I* was molested as a child, and I would sooner have been aborted. Not a day goes by when I wake up in the goddamn morning and I don’t wish I was dead. You want to hear it, there you go.
I’m 45 years old, and the sexual abuse I suffered as a child has destroyed my entire life. I’m bipolar, I suffer from PTSD and TBI from physical abuse as well as sexual, the inside of my head is like a bag of feral cats, and I can’t manage a relationship with a woman. If I didn’t feel so much guilt and obligation to my siblings, I’d kill myself immediately. I’m in hell. What more do you need to hear?
Also, go fuck yourself. You pompous, arrogant “Christian.” Damn everyone like you.
Dash, I am so sorry to hear of the pain and grief that you suffered as a child and still suffer from today. Thank you for posting here. It’s helpful for people who haven’tn personally experienced these things to understand the extreme, long-term damage that child abuse inflicts, and your comment illustrates that heartbreakingly well. Peace to you, my brother, and grace as to a beloved friend. My prayer is calm for your clanging mind, rest for your sorrowing soul, and a future of hope and healing.
Dash, I used to work in an office on the 3rd floor of a 4 story building. sometimes we would hear this funny noise of wham,wham, wham, wham, wham, and you could feel the vibration in the building. New people in the office would ask, “What is that noise?” Old people in the office would say “You don’t want to know.”
Eventually the new person in the office would be told, there is a sexual abuse counseling office up stairs and they have a heavy bag for boxer training hung from the structure.
During counseling, some people who have been sexually abused, hit the heavy bag with a baseball bat to vent their horror, sometimes until they collapse.
(wham, wham, wham, wham)
So I can believe you are in “hell”. I have felt the horror from a floor away.
I don’t know what various therapies there are for casualties of sexual abuse.
I don’t know what support groups there are for casualties of sexual abuse.
I don’t know if they help.
But I do know they are out there.
Hope you find something that helps you.
Hi! I am glad there are people in Douglas Wilson- Presiding Minister of the CREC’s church who are reading blogs about this.
I think, though, you are missing the big picture and strainging at gnats. This is not a post about “let’s put pedophilia and abortion on a scale and see which one dips lower.” This is about obfuscation. This is about deflecting. This is about covering a big old butt.
If you read Douglas Wilson- Presiding Minister of the CREC’s blog you will (if you are honest with yourself) see:
1. A lot of blogging about how Douglas Wilson is such a stand-up pastor for letting pedophiles sit in church.
2. A lot of martyr posts about how terribly persecuted Douglas Wilson- Presiding Minister of the CREC is because golly, he’s just a stand-up good guy pastor, “why are they being so mean to me?”
3. A lot of derogatory comments about any women who doesn’t tow the Patriarchal line (And P.S. shame on the whole lot of the CREC elders and pastors over there in Moscow who silently let him abuse woment like this), e.g:
Harridan, Dyke, Woman who couldn’t hit the rear end of a bull with a snow shovel, Lumber-jack dykes, Small breasted, Biddies, Harpy, Avid reader of Cosmopolitan and thinks she knows 15K ways to please a man in bed, Surly, Feminazi, Feminist minions
4. ZERO. You will see zero in the way of aplogies for ever. Ever. Ever doing/saying anything wrong. Ever. I would dare anyone to do a good long search of this and come up with just one.
5. ZERO. You will find zero sympathy/empathy/ compassion for the victims. None. I would dare a good long search of his blog and come up with one.
And so, I think Katie’s point (and what I have noticed too, heck, anyone with half her brain tied behind her back can see it) is that Douglas Wilson- Presiding Minister of the CREC gets in a tough spot and he starts up again on defending the babies/ himself/ pedophiles, but it reads not so much like a defense as it reads like a toddler caught being bad and so starts complaining of “the other worser thing over there, lookie.”
There is something seriously, seriously amiss. Time will lay it all bare. The litany has begun, the fallen Patriarchs:
Duggars, Mark Driscoll, Doug Phillips, Michael Pearl, R C Sproul Jr., Bill Gothard…
Patriarchal tyranny sets up a place where it is safe to abuse women. I would dare to say that Douglas Wilson- Presiding Minister of the CREC has been slowly testing the waters with his verbal attacks against women on his “personal” blog (that gets billing on the church website) and are met with resounding silence from his elders, deacons, and fellow pastors in Moscow. Cowardice or complicity?
Lauren, blessings to you as you wade through all of this. May God give you wisdom.
This. All of this.
Lauren, I experienced repeated sexual victimization through my late twenties. In my darkest moments, both during and after the abuse, I found myself wishing I’d never been born. I also remember pleading with God to kill me so that the pain I felt would stop. While I’m no longer in that place, by God’s grace, I know that feeling of helplessness and hopelessness so very well. And the reason I’m no longer in that place? Because God sent several incredibly compassionate Christians into my life to walk with me through that terrible darkness without qualification or judgment or condition. They loved me — and still do — so very well, and through them I found a Jesus who’d always been there, even when I couldn’t see Him. My life is forever changed because a compassionate few *believed* my pain, without judgment, and showed me the One who felt that pain, too, even unto death.
I understand that members of Christ Church feel compelled to defend Doug Wilson. To admit that Doug is, at best, an arrogant, self-serving, schemer would imply that his loyal parishioners are either ignorant or complicit. I ask, and will continue to do so, who in their right mind would follow a man who has engineered such a tragic set of events? And, while I suppose you find it much easier to assume his critics just don’t understand and appreciate what a fine fellow he is,believe me, we know exactly what kind of man he is. And, we will never be silent.
Lauren, it is not disloyal to educate yourself instead of drinking the Kool-Aid. Please read the primary documents (including court records and probation reports), concerning Steven Sitler and Jaimin Wight. Those documents might help you gain some perspective. Listen to the tape made in the court room of Steven Sitler’s September 1, 2015 hearing. Learn from court officials that he was sexually aroused by his infant son, and his wife, who was obligated to report that fact to law enforcement, instead kept silent. Who do you think is going to protect that baby if his own mother won’t?
Ask yourself, or better yet, gather up your nerve and ask Doug Wilson if he knew that Ed Iverson arranged the initial meeting between Steven and Katie. Ask what Katie had ever done to be treated so badly. I don’t know how old you are but surely you understand that introduction should never have taken place. And, if you are reluctant to ask those questions, ask yourself why you are not able to do so. What would stop you? And, don’t buy into the charade that Steven Sitler had repented and so marriage was a good plan. Repentance is not the issue, sexual preference is.
I do wonder how often Kirk families have invited Katie and baby into their homes. Have you invited her to your home, Lauren? Do you offer to babysit so that she might have a day to herself? How do you know what the church is or is not doing to help her? Your minister, his elders and your church community deserve every ounce of condemnation you are receiving. You are all a party to it.
Doug Wilson is a piece of shit. He can cram his theological bloviations right up his ass.
Okay, my head is exploding. I didn’t read Lauren’s comment yesterday that included the statement made October 14, 2015 at 8:34 pm:
“Some victims want to remain silent, they feel forgiven they are healing and they don’t want to be up for public scrutiny.”
If she intended to write that victims need forgiveness she has sold her soul and intellectual capacity to a man without honor or integrity. If Lauren learns nothing else from the ongoing exposure of Doug’s homemade cult, she had better learn this.
Doug keeps the crap in the Kirk under wraps as a method of control of the congregation and as a barrier to public accountability. Forget what Doug says:
“This is what the LORD says: “Go down to the palace of the king of Judah and prophesy this message there: 2 ‘Hear the word of the LORD, king of Judah, who rules from David’s throne. You and your officers, and your people who come through these gates, listen! 3 This is what the LORD says: Do what is fair and right. Save the one who has been robbed from the power of his attacker. Don’t mistreat or hurt the foreigners, orphans, or widows. Don’t kill innocent people here. 4 If you carefully obey these commands, kings who sit on David’s throne will come through the gates of this palace with their officers and people, riding in chariots and on horses. 5 But if you don’t obey these commands, says the LORD, I swear by my own name that this king’s palace will become a ruin.’” Jeremiah 22:1-5
I always appreciate your honesty. You are one plucky lady. Thanks for supporting victims. Thanks for all you do. You make the world a better place.
When one is part of an insulated environment, it is virtually impossible to be objective. I lived that kind of life in the church/cult I belonged to. To even consider that the pastor/leader of your church has made some serious mistakes that need to be addressed is putting oneself in the *disloyal* camp. With regard to that Sitler marriage, the problem goes to the very foundation of the CREC’s beliefs. How could Katie be an objective reporter if her husband became abusive if she is supposed to submit to him at the same time? How exactly does that work? I recall an incident in the cult to which I once belonged, in which the wife was made to feel guilty for her husband’s adultery. The *pastor* (sic) told her that when she was aware of certain signs in her husband that indicated he might be unfaithful, and she should have “screamed” for help. The problem was, her husband was abusive verbally and physically and would shove her up against the wall and threaten her on various occasions with physical violence. Going outside of her marriage for help was an invitation to be physically abused. She should have been told to leave the guy for her own safety, but that was not the case because…..SUBMIT! The problem with patriarchal societies is that instead of 100% blame being directed toward an abuser, there is deflection in the form of assigning blame to the victim. This is definitely the situation with Natalie in the Wight case. I am appalled at some of the comments over at Blog and Mablog in Doug’s defense. If I weren’t a Christian, and those supporters were the only representatives of Christianity, I daresay I would not be a Christian.
Here is an excellent article by Boz T. with regard to independent versus internal investigations. Sadly, the CREC has no need to learn from some wisdom and experience.
“But none of this really matters to Doug,”
“You don’t have to agree that abortion is Ok to understand that some women do not view early abortion as evil, based on biology and the belief that the soul enters a child along with consciousness, or at a certain stage of development.”
But Katie, you do have to agree and understand that God views us as us, soul and all, even before we are conceived, since that’s what He says in His Word:
13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts, God!
A baby may or may not be aware of its’ own existence, but God is aware of the baby’s existence.
So Katie, does God’s Word and truth really matter to you?
Where babies are concerned? What does your “inmost being” tell you?
Finally, as personal statements go, that “I don’t like Wilsons” chip on your shoulder is not as compelling as you think it is. (It’s not as intelectual as you think it is either.)
I disagree. I find this blog extremely compelling: it’s well-reasoned, well-written, bold and gracious. And speaking as a late-middle-aged teacher, I would envy the intellect of this young woman if I were not silently applauding from the sidelines. Ok, not so silent anymore.
JFS, you misspelled intellectual.
Well, someone passed the test! ; – )
However, if we are Christians, are we not supposed to agree with God?
If not each other?
Psalm 139 says that God knows us, even before we have had any days, conceived, born or otherwise.
Katie, jkpvarin and Sara, do you agree that Psalm 139 says that God knows us, before we have had any days at all? If not, how doe you read Psalm 139?
Finally, Katie can write pretty well, but due to my touch of dyslexia, I had always read the subtitle of her blog as “Culture, adventure, silliness” not stillness.
Then I read Katie’s dating blog posts. While I can see the humor in them, the spirit of them, I found pretty silly and not very still.
Between those posts and the chip on her shoulder, in my own opinion, I find Katie less compelling than I did initially.
I’ll still keep reading though. It’s funny how you can see some people progress in a good way over a blog discourse.
I hope that is the case for all of us, as this is something like fellowship.
JFS, I respectfully disagree. You may personally perceive a “chip on her shoulder”, and that her comments are not compelling. I find them to be quite compelling, and her presentation, in my view, strikes me as reflecting considerable intelligence.
JFS, I’m not talking about my view here. I’m talking about the way murder works… i.e. you need intent, or it’s manslaughter. And, in theory, even if you believed Psalm 139 in the most literal way possible, you wouldn’t have to believe that humanity begins at conception (since these verses are vague enough to cover all or any of the nine months of pregnancy). I bring this up because I know that many or most women who get abortions do NOT intend to murder anyone, which is something Doug Wilson has never addressed.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Katie, Thanks for your comment. For the record, I do not think you are unintelligent, it’s just that I am in the habit of reading “publications” like “American Christianity” as if they were pure “journalism”.
That this topic is highly personal for you does erode your neutral view.
Anyway, the difference between murder and manslaughter is sort of moot for the person who was killed.
Good thing we have a God who punishes sin and crime with death, by taking His own Just Sentence upon Himself, if we accept His Judgment of our hearts.
Whenever I see someone get up in arms and all self-rightousy when talking about abortion, I feel compelled to share this link.
The author is a pro-life, homeschooling mother who actually understands history and the big picture.
Abortion cannot be blamed solely on women or even ‘evil’ feminists. There is a whole lot more going on that patriarchs refuse to acknowledge.
Whenever some one missunderstands The Word on this particular topic, I feel compelled to ask them,” What do you suppose Mary, Joseph and Jesus think about abortion? ”
Especially when no one is being “blamed” for anything.
True Fathers “partriarchs”, like God, are the best defenders of the innocent.
See the Gospel of Luke, Chapters 1 and 2! : – )
Also, Lemon Riccola’s are good for the upper nose and throat.
Wow…you missed her point by a country mile! Just because someone discusses abortion doesn’t mean they support it. Knock it off with the Scripture verses. We’re all adults.
Katie was talking about a much graver issue about Doug Wilson’s *value system* (or lack thereof), his support of pedophiles who exploit children, and his condemnation of women for moral sin.
Velour, what is Gods’ value system? Speaking as adults.
Regardless of what Wilson’s may be, is not Gods’ value system the bottom line?
The value system He will Judge all of us by, ignorant or not?
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”
I am simply an imperfect messenger, The Message however is Perfect.
My understanding of The Message could be wrong, so could yours.
Gods’ Message is always the greater point, which was my point.
“There have been reports that Katie Sitler has been seen at the food bank in Idaho.
If true, why hasn’t the church stepped forward and met ALL of her needs and her child’s?” Velour
“Wow…you missed her point by a country mile! Just because someone discusses abortion doesn’t mean they support it. Knock it off with the Scripture verses. We’re all adults.” Velour
As Katie Botkin might explain to anyone, and in a very intelligent fashion, If a person observes something and speaks about it, that is called “witness”.
If a person repeats “reports” of something they have not witnessed, that is called “hearsay”, also know as gossip.
Titus 2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good,
Velour, if so and so was seen at a food pantry, please confirm with the source of your “reports”. You might also check to see if so and so was wearing….oh… I don’t know…. Army boots?
If these “reports” turn out to be true, then you will feel ever so much better.
In the mean time, “knock it off” with your disobedience to The Word, and your presumption that you are behaving like and adult.
“So remember, the attempt to publicly strip and humiliate says less about the testimony about the person being humiliated than it does about the person intent on this crucifixion.” Katie Botkin
Abortion. Divorce. Common in our world. The patriarchal church in this country wants to distance itself from both. Those things happen ‘over there’ outside of ‘our ideal community’ outside of the Body of Christ.
Here’s what happens:
God brings people into the Christ Church community, into the Body who are not ideal. People wounded from divorce. People wounded from sexual predation. Widows. Orphans. Aliens. Does the CC community wrap itself around them? Are they welcomed into fellowship? No. The ideal families are instructed that they cannot include them. They must not fellowship with them. They must not risk sullying themselves. They are a threat to ideal marriages, ideal children… They ABORT them. The wounded leave or they will die from being cut off. God sends those who do not fit the ideal/Barbie mold and they are rejected. The CC Body must be ideal so it rejects what God sends. They are DIVORCED from the community. So they leave…
They did not leave because they are bitter. They left in order to heal from the neglect from this abuse. To seek out a healthy community.
It doesn’t take long if you attend CC to see people coming and going. It’s a revolving door. If people are being helped there why are they leaving? I challenge you who are defending it to travel far and wide. Find those who have left and find out why.
Who is aborting? Who is the abortionist? Who is divorcing? Think about it.
Here is a good resource on child sexual abuse in the church. It’s a 2+ hour training video by Pastor Jimmy Hinton in PA. Jimmy pastors a church that’s been around for about 100 years and is in the Church of Christ denomination. Jimmy turned in his father, also a pastor at the same church, for sexually abusing children in their church. Jimmy’s father is now serving a life sentence in prison. Jimmy’s mom Clara Hinton has the excellent blog called Finding a Healing Place. Great resources under the Resources tab on her blog, including this video. Their family has now become tireless advocates for victims and their families.
Here is another great resource on sex offenders. It’s an interview with Dr. Anna Salter an expert and author who writes about pedophiles. She is interviewed on CorrectionsOne/TierTalk, a professional organization for the corrections industry.
Here’s a video of Dr. Anna Salter interviewing convicted child molesters. The first one in particular is shocking. It’s difficult to watch, but very instructive.
She also wrote a book called ‘Predators.’
Nice red herring, there Doug, to throw out a controversial statement like “abortion is a worse sin than sex abuse.” A master debate move. The people who agree with uour statement will see you as reasonable, and the ensuing discussion will be an argument over that irrelevant controversy. Well done.
Or so you think. Because when you say “abortion is a worse sin than sex abuse, and nobody has a problem going to church with with people who’ve secured abortions,” it shows you really do. Not. Get. What people are concerned about. The concern isn’t that people are sitting around in church deciding who is and isn’t a big enough sinner to be there with us. The concern is that, regardless of which sins are bigger, some acts are different than others and pose entirely different risks that need to be handled in entirely different (yet equally loving) ways.
Political rhetoric to the contrary, people do not get abortions because they have an innate desire to murder infants, born or unborn. Someone who has had an abortion (whether or not it is a sin, and, if so, regardless of the relative size if that sin) is not someone the church needs to worry about allowing access to the church nursery lest she be discovered covered in blood sitting on a pile of dead infants. A man who has helped his wife get an abortion for whatever reason can still be cast as Herod in the Christmas production without anybody worrying that the Tiny Tot choir is going to turn up missing.
A pedophile, however lovingly and forgivingly the church may treat him, must be treated as someone who has a real innate issue that poses a further risk to children. You do not give him or her access to the nursery. You do not cast him or her in the Christmas play with the Tiny Tot choir. If you really care about that pedophile and the children too, you will lovingly help that person avoid temptation and not encourage or pray for him or her to wind up in a situation where temptation is unavoidable.
And yes, you did put limits on this particular pedophile’s access to children at church that are not in his family, but you also prayed that he would have children.
So when you deflect with “abortion is a worse sin than pedophilia and we let people who have abortion take communion,” you just confirm that the problem everyone is upset about is real: you don’t understand that, regarless of its relative “badness,” pedophilia is different. You don’t know how to handle pedophiles, you don’t know you don’t know or you can’t admit it, and that leaves children at risk.