I know that a number of people have posted links to sources critical of Doug Wilson’s recent actions, or expressed critique themselves, and subsequently been contacted by CREC pastors, elders and their family members with various injunctions against posting/saying such things. Usually, these injunctions are worded as “you don’t know the whole story, so you shouldn’t be talking about it” or “you shouldn’t gossip.” Sometimes they’re worded more strongly, with cautions against associating with the “slander” of “God-haters with an axe to grind,” etc etc. Sometimes, gross misrepresentations of these “God-haters” are even mixed in. Occasionally, threats may be involved. Quite a few of the people who have been thus contacted are not even CREC church members, which seems particularly meddlesome.
I would like to know how many people this has happened to, aside from the cases I’m already familiar with. I will post the results anonymously. I will need to know who you actually are, just for the sake of my own record-keeping (and fact-checking where applicable), but your name and any identifying information will be kept secret. If you’ve received threats, veiled or otherwise, it would be good to know this.
I don’t expect that everyone who has experienced this will feel comfortable contacting me (assuming they read my blog in the first place), but I’m interested in getting a representative sample. Note: as always, the linked contact form will direct your message to a private and secure inbox and will be seen only by me.
6 thoughts on “Survey question”
Any interest in taking in data from people who have been supported by involved or associated Elders?
Either way, what is your standard for witness / confrimation of anyone’s story?
You do run the risk of becoming the next Sabrina Rubin Erdely. : – (
Proverbs 16:27-28 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
27 Troublemakers create disasters. Their advice destroys like a wildfire.
28 Troublemakers are always causing problems. Their gossip breaks up the closest of friends.
Take a moment to read 1 Kings 18, especially verses 16-18.
When the prophet Elijah confronts King Ahab, the first thing Ahab says to Elijah is, “Is that you, you troubler of Israel?” But Elijah says, “I have not made trouble for Israel, but you and your father’s family have.” He then identifies the source of the trouble: “You have abandoned the Lord’s commands….”
The real troublemaker is the one who has abandoned the Lord;’s commands. And sometimes that’s the King. Or the pastor. Or the elders. Not the people you would expect.
And the prophet is almost always standing all alone, like Elijah. Or John the Baptist in the wilderness. Or Jesus when all the disciples have fled.
Katie is asking for data. That is not causing trouble. It is investigating carefully. It is testing all things. it is doing what Christians are supposed to do.
The verse you quote says that troublemakers create disasters, give destructive advice, and “are always causing problems.”
Ask yourself if that doesn’t sound a lot like Doug Wilson. This website wouldn’t exist if not for his destructive advice. He advised leniency for Sitler and Wight after writing for years that such people should get the death penalty. Then he married a pedophile to an NSA student and sent a rapist on a church mission. Now the pedophile has a child he can’t parent. He can’t live with his wife. Didn’t Doug see that one coming?
Sounds like a disaster to me. And you should know by now who caused it.
JFS, over the past several years I have had the excellent fortune to become a very good friend of a former member of Christ Church. Also, over those years, I have heard from him, his wife, and their children regarding the horrifying treatment they received after crossing Doug Wilson and leaving the church. Not being a Christian myself, perhaps I was naive in not knowing that such miserable treatment could or would be received from a supposedly loving Pastor. Apparently, when that Pastor becomes your ex-Pastor, love, understanding and civility fly out the church window. You can toss all the Biblical passages at me that you wish, it won’t change the disgust I have learned to feel toward Mr. Wilson. And don’t even try to tell me my friend and his family are being dishonest with me. Or that “I don’t know the truth”. Because I do.
How pompous you sound, JFS. I hope you aren’t that way in real life, since we are to be humble like our Christ.
Unfortunately, your opinion is also awry. You are opining that those who expose the truth are troublemakers. Yes, trouble is sometimes the result of truth-telling, but more often than not it is a cleansing agent rather than destructive to goodness. To have your opinion taken seriously, you would need to make a solid defense of the latter. Mere crankiness with a dingified version of a couple of proverbs is lazy.
Lastly, if Katie thought it useful to write about the benefits of Kirk, DW, et al, I suppose she would do so. You think it would be an useful exercise, so go ahead. To pressure someone else to do something that you want done smacks of…laziness and pomposity.
Easy there Patrice. Katie does not let every comment and every reply go through.
If she did, you might not be using the same adjectives you use now.
Sabrina Rubin Erdely was the person who wrote the false rape story that alledgedly occured at UVA. Ms. Erdely let junk statistics and her resulting passions get the best of her and she swallowed a fabricated story hook, line and sinker.
Now the Rolling Stone mag. is being sued for $25 (?) million for that story.
Ms. Erdely will sound pretty pompus at that trial.
Anyway, “what is your standard for witness / confrimation of anyone’s story?”
Is a reasonable question, and the proper professional answer is in Katie’s best interest. I am certain Katie knows this as well.
FYI, Patrice, Katie, apparently did not let my response to Tony go through.
This is one of the pitfalls of Katie’s burden in self editing.
I am not “pressuring” Katie as you insist.
I am reminding her that there is such a thing as balance, even as she trolls for negative tips, but may be comming up dry.
If she is comming up dry, perhaps that’s the lesson.
JFS, just FYI, your comments go through automatically unless there are a ton of links involved. Then they’re marked as spam. I didn’t set the parameters up, WordPress did. I personally err on the side of letting everything through.
And people are free to contact me with any comments they choose. Many have. Looking at behind-the-scenes patterns of behavior within the CREC is no more “trolling” than looking at patterns of behavior for any other group of people. But it is far more difficult to speak publicly when you’re afraid (and many are) than when you know you’ll get patted on the back for it.
As for my methods, they’re sound, but I obviously am not going to be sharing the details. I protect my sources.